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 Posted: Tue May 29th, 2018 04:47 pm
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For the Captain Obvious reminder:

Also check your input shaft for any burrs or deformities. The chamfer should be the same all the way around the shaft.



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Came out of retirement to drive a school bus - I have lost my mind
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 Posted: Mon Jun 4th, 2018 04:07 am
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The saga continues.  I ordered a new OEM pilot bearing...same result as the original...it does not fit.  I don't see or feel and burrs or deformities on the input shaft and lightly sanded (by hand) it to ensure it was perfectly smooth.  I also picked up a universal clutch alignment set.  The bearing adapter one size smaller (a tiny fraction of a mm) than my input shaft fits perfectly through the pilot bearing.  Pics below for more detail.

Dry fit of pilot bearing to input shaft...I suspect a different input shaft as both the original and new Ford OEM bearing do not fit...bearing size has been cross referenced directly from online Ford parts sites.



Input shaft diameter measurement...0.595 inches...equates to 15.113 mm...caliper has margin of error of .003 mm.  The inner diameter of the bearing is ~0.586 in...14.884 mm.  There's a reason it doesn't fit.  But it should be the original shaft as I sourced all my own parts and kept all the old parts.  What am I missing?



Brand new pilot bearing.



Universal clutch alignment tool set.



Now how do I figure out what pilot bearing will fit?

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 Posted: Mon Jun 4th, 2018 05:10 am
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JAMMAN

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How does it fit in the crank? Looks like there were 2 bearings for that and if so 2 shafts.

If it falls in the crank easily then it might be the .596 ID .829 OD you need, still considered an "E" but different dims.

If it is tight in the crank (if you had it in how did it come out so easily? Those USUALLY need to be damaged to remove) then the shaft is wrong.

The shaft you have is for a 690-044 bearing. There is only .002" difference in the OD's of both bearings.

I have never removed a can roller bearing from a crank. I have however removed about 200 from "orbital riviting heads" I used to work on, they are supposed to be a press fit into the hole.



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00 XLT 2WD RCSB 5.0 swap Gherkin
00 XLT 4WD XCSB 4.0 G2
00 XLT 4WD RCSB 3.GO! Jalapeño
00 XLT 4WD RCSB Steppie 3.blown. Mistake
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00 XLT 2WD RC Steppie 2.5 Dee Dee

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 Posted: Mon Jun 4th, 2018 04:51 pm
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Just to verify... Is the Ranger in this thread a 1987 2.3L 2WD 5-speed?



____________________
2003 FX4 Level II, Supercharged 5.0L V8, Headers, Duals, BW4406 manual T/C
Aussie Locker, Torsen L/S, 4.10's, Bilstein 7100 rezzies, Cadillac/Mustang rear discs, Duff traction bars
Keypad Entry, Lock LEDs, sway bar discos, Heated seats, Explorer EATC, Trip Computer and consoles

Other rides:
2016 C-MAX Energi (plug-in Hybrid)
2011 Taurus SEL (highway cruiser)
2003 Ranger 2.3L M5ODR1 Regular Cab (drudge)

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 Posted: Mon Jun 4th, 2018 05:07 pm
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Thanks Jamman. 

V8, Yes.  It's a 1987 XLT with a 2.3L engine and the Toyo Kogyo  5-spoed manual transmission.

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 Posted: Mon Jun 4th, 2018 05:30 pm
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coat the new pilot bearing and input shaft in vaseline that will help keep the needles in place and the input shaft slide in
The tailhousing makes small circles while pushing forward with alignment dowels lined up and don't forget the scatter shield!! Been there done that a few times
the angle must be 100% perfect for the union to happen, otherwise you are pissing in the wind
This is why once its close you make small circles, it will go....... I have even dropped them back to the ground and start 100% over
Its weird sometimes they stab in 2 seconds, sometimes all planets must align and the sun must be to the east...if its fighting you just try again it will go
FYI for you 4.0L OHV guys you can use the clutch & flywheel from a 03+ Ranger edge sohc and you will get a much larger driven disc MUCH better pedal and overall clutch performance
The old 6 bolt OHV's will need some holes drilled in the flywheel to accommodate the larger pressure plate for the sohc ranger
The 98+ 4.0L OHV engine already has the 8 bolt crank so you can simply bolt on a sohc flywheel

Last edited on Mon Jun 4th, 2018 05:45 pm by 410customs



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 Posted: Mon Jun 4th, 2018 06:29 pm
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Mystery solved? Sorta? Maybe? Not?

In 1987, Ford used 2 different suppliers for Ranger manuals: Mitsubishi 5-speed and Toyo Koygo (Mazda) 4- and 5-speeds. Also, it seems that both suppliers made 2WD and 4WD versions.

Some say that the pilot difference is split by engine:

87 Ranger 4-cylinder 2.0/2.3:
Pilot bearing (press into crank)
0.827" O.D.
0.586" I.D.
0.590 Length
Ford PN: D4ZZ-7600-A
Timken: FC65354

87 Ranger 6-cylinder 2.9:
Pilot bearing (press into flywheel)
0.827" O.D.
0.593" I.D.
0.590 Length
Ford PN: E3TZ-7600-C
Timken: F33126


Other sources say that the difference in pilot diameter depends on which manufacturer made the transmission, Mazda or Mitsubishi. Actually, this might be more plausible than the I4/V6 distinction.  Hard to tell from all the dizzying array of information/misinformation on the internet. As usual.

So, no clear conclusion except to say that there is a larger ID needle bearing listed for the 1987 manual. Maybe that helps, maybe not. 

Good luck!



____________________
2003 FX4 Level II, Supercharged 5.0L V8, Headers, Duals, BW4406 manual T/C
Aussie Locker, Torsen L/S, 4.10's, Bilstein 7100 rezzies, Cadillac/Mustang rear discs, Duff traction bars
Keypad Entry, Lock LEDs, sway bar discos, Heated seats, Explorer EATC, Trip Computer and consoles

Other rides:
2016 C-MAX Energi (plug-in Hybrid)
2011 Taurus SEL (highway cruiser)
2003 Ranger 2.3L M5ODR1 Regular Cab (drudge)

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 Posted: Mon Jun 4th, 2018 07:03 pm
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As usual Bob Comes through... !

You might want to tote the Trans to the Dealership, and try out bearing fitment; maybe the parts guy can tell from the trans what you have/need.

Also, write down the VIN and any door coding for the trans/engine in, or came with, the vehicle.

Did the engine ever get replaced ?

I miss my old 2.9L, it was a keeper.

Added:  Make sure to take the Part Numbers Bob has provided, maybe a good starting place !

Last edited on Mon Jun 4th, 2018 07:06 pm by Scrambler82



____________________
Ltr,
2003 EDGE, Std Cab, Steppie, E4 Red, 5sp, 4x
5" SuperLift, 33" x 12.50 x 15"
Hurst Shifter
Mod'd Backrack to fit Steppie
Front and Rear Bumpers by Custom 4x4 Fabrication, OK.
Working on more Mods, just need more time, longer days would work !
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 Posted: Mon Jun 4th, 2018 07:08 pm
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Just got another thought... do you have any of the old bearing laying around ?
Have you looked for any numbers on it ?



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Ltr,
2003 EDGE, Std Cab, Steppie, E4 Red, 5sp, 4x
5" SuperLift, 33" x 12.50 x 15"
Hurst Shifter
Mod'd Backrack to fit Steppie
Front and Rear Bumpers by Custom 4x4 Fabrication, OK.
Working on more Mods, just need more time, longer days would work !
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 Posted: Mon Jun 4th, 2018 08:20 pm
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JAMMAN

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V8 Level II wrote:
87 Ranger 6-cylinder 2.9:
Pilot bearing (press into flywheel)
0.827" O.D.
0.593" I.D.
0.590 Length
Ford PN: E3TZ-7600-C
Timken: F33126

If the shaft is .595 then the .593 ID bearing isn't going to work regardless of it being ford, timken, INI, Torrington (probably out of business or merged with someone).


Ugh I hope this sorts out.



____________________
00 XLT 2WD RCSB 5.0 swap Gherkin
00 XLT 4WD XCSB 4.0 G2
00 XLT 4WD RCSB 3.GO! Jalapeño
00 XLT 4WD RCSB Steppie 3.blown. Mistake
99 XL 4WD RCSB 3.0 PJ (Plain Jane)
00 XLT 2WD RC Steppie 2.5 Dee Dee

ALL Amazon Green Metallic
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 Posted: Mon Jun 4th, 2018 08:31 pm
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JAMMAN wrote:
V8 Level II wrote:

87 Ranger 6-cylinder 2.9:
Pilot bearing (press into flywheel)
0.827" O.D.
0.593" I.D.
0.590 Length
Ford PN: E3TZ-7600-C
Timken: F33126

If the shaft is .595 then the .593 ID bearing isn't going to work regardless of it being ford, timken, INI, Torrington (probably out of business or merged with someone).


Ugh I hope this sorts out.

Of course you're right. However, it was a caliper measurement and  I can't say whether it was accurate to the last thou or two. Just putting new info out there for what it might be worth.



____________________
2003 FX4 Level II, Supercharged 5.0L V8, Headers, Duals, BW4406 manual T/C
Aussie Locker, Torsen L/S, 4.10's, Bilstein 7100 rezzies, Cadillac/Mustang rear discs, Duff traction bars
Keypad Entry, Lock LEDs, sway bar discos, Heated seats, Explorer EATC, Trip Computer and consoles

Other rides:
2016 C-MAX Energi (plug-in Hybrid)
2011 Taurus SEL (highway cruiser)
2003 Ranger 2.3L M5ODR1 Regular Cab (drudge)

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 Posted: Mon Jun 4th, 2018 09:05 pm
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Scrambler82
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V8 Level II wrote:
JAMMAN wrote:

V8 Level II wrote:


87 Ranger 6-cylinder 2.9:
Pilot bearing (press into flywheel)
0.827" O.D.
0.593" I.D.
0.590 Length
Ford PN: E3TZ-7600-C
Timken: F33126

If the shaft is .595 then the .593 ID bearing isn't going to work regardless of it being ford, timken, INI, Torrington (probably out of business or merged with someone).


Ugh I hope this sorts out.

Of course you're right. However, it was a caliper measurement and  I can't say whether it was accurate to the last thou or two. Just putting new info out there for what it might be worth.

I agree, the accuracy of a Digital Caliper is approximately +/- .003, some are better like the Brown and Sharpe Digital, and you pay for it, but they are +/- .001; so the Caliper reading of both the OD of the Input Shaft and the ID of the Pilot Bearing are so close they should work.
Sort of "Geometric Dimensioning" both parts are close enough to work !
If there is a question then we need to move up to Micrometers, +/- .001, and Gauge Pins, and see what the reading are like but I'm thinking it is going to work !

I would get one of the larger bearing and see how it fits !  The OD of the 2.9L Bearing is the same as the 2.3L bearing so if it fits on the shaft it should fit the job !

These statements, as others from me, are not based on being a mechanic, because I am not, double check every measurement and decide what you want to do.



____________________
Ltr,
2003 EDGE, Std Cab, Steppie, E4 Red, 5sp, 4x
5" SuperLift, 33" x 12.50 x 15"
Hurst Shifter
Mod'd Backrack to fit Steppie
Front and Rear Bumpers by Custom 4x4 Fabrication, OK.
Working on more Mods, just need more time, longer days would work !
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 Posted: Wed Jun 6th, 2018 04:38 pm
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1qaz,

How's this going, any luck on determining the correct pilot bearing ?



____________________
Ltr,
2003 EDGE, Std Cab, Steppie, E4 Red, 5sp, 4x
5" SuperLift, 33" x 12.50 x 15"
Hurst Shifter
Mod'd Backrack to fit Steppie
Front and Rear Bumpers by Custom 4x4 Fabrication, OK.
Working on more Mods, just need more time, longer days would work !
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 Posted: Thu Jun 7th, 2018 01:16 am
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Jamman, V8, 410, Thanks for all the research and responses...mucho appreciated.  

Scrambler, I took V8's input and ordered the E3TZ-7600-C pilot bearing even though I know it's for the 2.9L engine with a M5OD...the dimensions are the same minus the ID which is where my challenge exists.  It should be here Friday.  If that doesn't work, I'm going to go ahead and order a NOS input shaft specifically for my TK5...already sourced one...just over $50 delivered.  I hate to tear back into my transmission but I want it right...just as it was when it left the factory. 

Thanks for checking in on me.  You're all rock stars!!

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 Posted: Thu Jun 7th, 2018 02:35 am
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Good to hear you have a handle on it !
Hope the 2.9L Pilot Bearing works !

Ltr



____________________
Ltr,
2003 EDGE, Std Cab, Steppie, E4 Red, 5sp, 4x
5" SuperLift, 33" x 12.50 x 15"
Hurst Shifter
Mod'd Backrack to fit Steppie
Front and Rear Bumpers by Custom 4x4 Fabrication, OK.
Working on more Mods, just need more time, longer days would work !
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 Posted: Sat Jun 9th, 2018 06:33 pm
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I think I'm making some progress.

Shaved .004 inch off with Emery cloth.

  


Dry fit good!



Using the right pilot bearing for a 1987 TK5 transmission.



Going to try to install the transmission again today.  Thanks for all the input.  Hopefully this helps someone else later on down the line.

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 Posted: Sun Jun 10th, 2018 03:47 pm
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Scrambler82
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1qaz wrote:
I think I'm making some progress.

Shaved .004 inch off with Emery cloth.

  


Dry fit good!



Using the right pilot bearing for a 1987 TK5 transmission.



Going to try to install the transmission again today.  Thanks for all the input.  Hopefully this helps someone else later on down the line.

This WILL be interesting to see where this goes.
The Shaft measures .591, the ID of the correct Pilot Bearing is .586, are you sure of the Bearing being the '87...; I guess the other one would be too loose !
Now to install the Pilot Bearing and see if there is any compression of the sleeve, which of course will reduce the ID some, this bearing is an interference fit so there will be some reduction in ID, just how much will be inserting.   (If you get a chance to measrure the ID of the Pilot Bearing after install, that would be interesting to see just how much compression there is) ?

.004 removed with the Emery Cloth, I love that stuff, just asking, when you measured the end of the Shaft, you did measurements in more than one place ?

I know my questions are common sense but I just had to ask them; sorry if it causes any grief !

Make sure to use the proper tool for the install of the bearing !

NOW... once the bearing is installed and the Trans is sitting in place, tightened in place that is, with the trans in neutral, spin the tail shaft, it should spin fairly easy !

Good Luck, hoping for the best results.

Ltr

Emery Cloth - That's all I knew for its name, now it is called Abrasive Cloth... funny how terms change !  Someone named "Emery" must not have liked it !
If you don't mind me asking what's the going price on that stuff these days ?
The amount taken off by the Emery Cloth was surprising to me, "0.004 of an inch", although a small number it is a good amount of metal to remove; Very Interesting, Very Interesting !

Last edited on Sun Jun 10th, 2018 03:50 pm by Scrambler82



____________________
Ltr,
2003 EDGE, Std Cab, Steppie, E4 Red, 5sp, 4x
5" SuperLift, 33" x 12.50 x 15"
Hurst Shifter
Mod'd Backrack to fit Steppie
Front and Rear Bumpers by Custom 4x4 Fabrication, OK.
Working on more Mods, just need more time, longer days would work !
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 Posted: Sun Jun 17th, 2018 03:36 am
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No worries, Scrambler...thanks for the concern.  Everything worked out.  I stepped back, thought my way through it, dry fit every part multiple ways, and it went right in.  Input shaft measured exactly the same at every location...I was extremely deliberate in how I cleaned it up with the Emery cloth...rotated the shaft often, even pressure in consistent back and forth, left hand, right hand motions.  Pics below of how it went.

Full dry fit of the clutch disc and pilot bearing...should have done that first thing.



Pilot bearing inserted, test fitted with input shaft (yes, still attached to the transmission)...slid in like butter.



Reinstalled flywheel, clutch disc, and pressure plate.  Left pressure plate loose enough to maneuver the clutch disc.  Reinserted input shaft, tightened down pressure plate...guaranteed alignment.



Put bell housing back on, lined everything up, maneuvered transmission over the crossmember, cleared the firewall, inserted input shaft, wiggled (less is more), wiggled a little bit more, felt the input shaft enter the clutch disc, wiggled some more, felt it reach the pilot bearing, raised engine ever so slightly, wiggled a bit more (even smaller than before), bell housing reached engine block, bolted her down.  Biggest lesson learned...brute force is useless and actually negates the effort.

Back in place!!!



Now on to bleeding the slave cylinder, hooking up the speedometer gear and reverse sensor, refilling with Mercon V, and reinstalling the gear shift.

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 Posted: Sun Jun 17th, 2018 03:42 am
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Good to hear you got it in.

That was a hair puller !



____________________
Ltr,
2003 EDGE, Std Cab, Steppie, E4 Red, 5sp, 4x
5" SuperLift, 33" x 12.50 x 15"
Hurst Shifter
Mod'd Backrack to fit Steppie
Front and Rear Bumpers by Custom 4x4 Fabrication, OK.
Working on more Mods, just need more time, longer days would work !
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 Posted: Sun Jun 17th, 2018 04:25 am
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Good to hear it finally fits together. I have had my share of problematic transmissions. But it was usually with left over parts form the rebuild...



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NE ATL
'04 XLT regular cab 3.slo stepside
Came out of retirement to drive a school bus - I have lost my mind
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