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Is there any reason to NOT buy an after market intake?       #: 894
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 Posted: Wed May 30th, 2018 05:04 pm
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aroundincircles
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looking at something like this:
http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?icep_ff3=2&pub=5575128025&toolid=10001&campid=5337703343&customid=&icep_item=251033008224&ipn=psmain&icep_vectorid=229466&kwid=902099&mtid=824&kw=lg


add a little bling under the hood, add some throttle noise. I'm not expecting horsepower gains, but I've done... nothing to my truck to make it mine yet, outside of a bed cover, wrapping the wheel, and radio. I plan on doing a new exhaust, (suggestions there would be appreciated), new wheels/tires soon, but figured this is an easy and inexpensive place to start (also have some off road lights coming too).



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 Posted: Wed May 30th, 2018 07:02 pm
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There is really no reason not to. Like you said it will make noise. I noticed an increase in throttle response and a slight increase in mpg on long trips. For $40 its money well spent. But I'd lean more towards one with a washable filter



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 Posted: Wed May 30th, 2018 08:27 pm
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It says it is a washable filter in the description.



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 Posted: Wed May 30th, 2018 10:21 pm
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For $40 I'd buy it. If nothing else when you roll into an S-10 meet and pop the hood it will look cool



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 Posted: Wed May 30th, 2018 10:56 pm
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Hmmm...
 
Remove the factory intake which draws relatively cool air from behind the headlight in front of the core support. 

Then replace it with an intake that sucks most of its air directly from the engine compartment heated by the engine, radiator and exhaust. 

Pay $40 because they say it somehow draws cold air from outside the engine compartment but it clearly does not.  Check the auction picture.

 
If shiny parts and more intake noise are what you're after, it should deliver.

If you want a REAL aftermarket cold air kit, that would cost a lot more than $40.



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 Posted: Wed May 30th, 2018 11:45 pm
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Go check out black06xlt's thread "K&N cold air kit" in the For Sale section



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 Posted: Thu May 31st, 2018 03:16 am
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V8 Level II wrote:
Hmmm...
 
Remove the factory intake which draws relatively cool air from behind the headlight in front of the core support. 

Then replace it with an intake that sucks most of its air directly from the engine compartment heated by the engine, radiator and exhaust. 

Pay $40 because they say it somehow draws cold air from outside the engine compartment but it clearly does not.  Check the auction picture.

 
If shiny parts and more intake noise are what you're after, it should deliver.

If you want a REAL aftermarket cold air kit, that would cost a lot more than $40.

This ^^^

To put it mildly; It doesn't matter how much air gets through: Here's the thing, you could stuff all of the wind blowing across the planet into your air box, and it wouldn't really make a difference. All that air still needs to pass a very important component: your throttle body. Remember the movie 300? They defended that small canyon pass for a reason, no matter how many baddies came towards them, they all had to squeeze through that small pass. Your throttle blade is essential Leonidas and his 299 pals. That's it's entire job, to change the amount of air flowing into your engine to meet an air-fuel ratio of 14.7:1. To really change the amount of air flowing into your engine, you first need to upgrade the size of your throttle body. The Persians need a bigger pass, bro...

Can you adjust some airflow to increase THROTTLE RESPONSE by going from a Paper > Dry/Oiled Cotton > Foam Filters?

Sure, and as the engine works like an air pump. Obviously if you breathing better, you would HAVE added a larger T/B to swallow all that Air to be able to "Tune" in more fuel and spark retardation or advance, you still need to create an exit point - the exhaust which I'm sure was next on our minds right I thought I saw?

But as soon as you start changing out that airbox and piping your changing the harmonics of the engine and its performance all for a noise that ideally just causes you to spend more money at the pump. Wanna save money for real mods that you can enjoy? How about paying less taxes? Everyone wants to pay less taxes right..

STOP

GOING

TO THE PUMP..

Less trips to the pump saves a bit more gas, saving on gas means paying less GAS tax.. Its not like your state or mine is actually spending that money on the roads. if that were the case, we wouldn't have bridges across the country 50+ years in degradation factors falling apart. The Wooooosh Noise isnt helping you or performance. I mean if you're the type of person(s) that think POWER is defined by spinning the tires on a vehicle VS having proper suspension work and getting all 112-500hp to the ground well.., You can kick any pig in the ass and make it squeal. But you'll be losing time on that clock doing so.

Put your money into your suspension, better tires, something that will benefit you as a function or use. Not mythical power adders or automotive party favors that make "noise".

Last edited on Thu May 31st, 2018 03:17 am by Undrstm8ed



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 Posted: Thu May 31st, 2018 03:49 am
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aroundincircles wrote:
...... I'm not expecting horsepower gains......

But you do set yourself up for horsepower loss. The reason is simple; cool air contains more oxygen than warm air, as such the cool air will require more fuel in order for the intake charge to achieve combustion stoichiometry (ie, 14.7 parts oxygen, 1 part fuel), the engine management system (key components being the PCM, O2 sensors, the MAF and the IAT sensor) strive to do this nearly all the time and ultimately, the denser the charge of fuel/air, the greater HP that can be developed. When the factory installed cold air intake is removed and replaced with these cutsie aftermarket warm air intakes, this is what can/will happen. Now after reading this it would come as little surprise if the explanation of how things work is ignored and the WAI (Warm Air Intake) is bought and installed, but at least the reason for negative consequences has been spelled out and can be considered before either using the money for smart things, or otherwise.

Edit: if the ^^^^ isn't understood then neither will be the (similar) reason for turbo and superchargers being used to pump up engine output.

Last edited on Thu May 31st, 2018 03:57 am by CBB9M



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 Posted: Thu May 31st, 2018 03:55 am
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CBB9M wrote:

Last edited on Thu May 31st, 2018 03:56 am by CBB9M



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 Posted: Thu May 31st, 2018 06:23 am
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Undrstm8ed wrote:
V8 Level II wrote:

Hmmm...
 
Remove the factory intake which draws relatively cool air from behind the headlight in front of the core support. 

Then replace it with an intake that sucks most of its air directly from the engine compartment heated by the engine, radiator and exhaust. 

Pay $40 because they say it somehow draws cold air from outside the engine compartment but it clearly does not.  Check the auction picture.

 
If shiny parts and more intake noise are what you're after, it should deliver.

If you want a REAL aftermarket cold air kit, that would cost a lot more than $40.

This ^^^

To put it mildly; It doesn't matter how much air gets through: Here's the thing, you could stuff all of the wind blowing across the planet into your air box, and it wouldn't really make a difference. All that air still needs to pass a very important component: your throttle body. Remember the movie 300? They defended that small canyon pass for a reason, no matter how many baddies came towards them, they all had to squeeze through that small pass. Your throttle blade is essential Leonidas and his 299 pals. That's it's entire job, to change the amount of air flowing into your engine to meet an air-fuel ratio of 14.7:1. To really change the amount of air flowing into your engine, you first need to upgrade the size of your throttle body. The Persians need a bigger pass, bro...

Can you adjust some airflow to increase THROTTLE RESPONSE by going from a Paper > Dry/Oiled Cotton > Foam Filters?

Sure, and as the engine works like an air pump. Obviously if you breathing better, you would HAVE added a larger T/B to swallow all that Air to be able to "Tune" in more fuel and spark retardation or advance, you still need to create an exit point - the exhaust which I'm sure was next on our minds right I thought I saw?

But as soon as you start changing out that airbox and piping your changing the harmonics of the engine and its performance all for a noise that ideally just causes you to spend more money at the pump. Wanna save money for real mods that you can enjoy? How about paying less taxes? Everyone wants to pay less taxes right..

STOP

GOING

TO THE PUMP..

Less trips to the pump saves a bit more gas, saving on gas means paying less GAS tax.. Its not like your state or mine is actually spending that money on the roads. if that were the case, we wouldn't have bridges across the country 50+ years in degradation factors falling apart. The Wooooosh Noise isnt helping you or performance. I mean if you're the type of person(s) that think POWER is defined by spinning the tires on a vehicle VS having proper suspension work and getting all 112-500hp to the ground well.., You can kick any pig in the ass and make it squeal. But you'll be losing time on that clock doing so.

Put your money into your suspension, better tires, something that will benefit you as a function or use. Not mythical power adders or automotive party favors that make "noise".

Wow, I struck a nerve. 


Couple of things, my truck gets driven maybe once a week at most, and that's because I make note to do it so its not just sitting. I drive a sedan that gets 30mpg to and from work. I drive over 30 miles one way to work, in really heavy rush hour traffic. It's really hard on cars and on fuel economy, and since I want to keep my truck a long time, I decided to not beat it up by daily driving it (and its meh fuel economy/smaller gas tank size had me going to the pump every other day, vs just once a week, super annoying)

Fully aware of an engine being a big air pump, my other two cars are turbo charged, highly modified and tuned (or on their way to get there). I'm not new to that concept. I do plan on doing some other things to it, like an exhaust manifold, maybe port and polish the heads and lower intake plenum, I haven't looked into options for larger TB's, is that even an option?  My budget is small, I've saved up for wheels, and I am saving up for tires, but I also run a youtube channel and have some $$ set aside for video creation, so this would come from that, and not from  my wheel/tire budget. 

My goal was to add some bling. the air temp difference between where this filter sits and where it draws air in from on a stock box is not going to be that big, a few degrees max. On a turbo charged car, it might make a difference, but I doubt it will on my 98 OHV, I mean the thing already makes so little horsepower and torque for the size of engine that it is, its kinda a joke. (don't get me wrong I LOVE my truck, but the power that size of engine puts out is... just sad). we've hit the summer here in AZ, and my turbo cars with their big intercoolers, and True CAI that take air from out in front of the cars struggle as it is with lag, and building boost. Its almost comical how bad it is. but my NA cars? Meh, they don't care. I'm sure I've lost a few tenths of a second 0-60, but its negligible. 


I ask because I've had cars in the past that an intake like this would screw with the computer/MAF, and the car would run like crap after making any change (I'm looking at you v6 alero) to the intake system. But if its happy to run it, i think it will be fun to have.



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 Posted: Thu May 31st, 2018 11:21 am
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I'm curious, who here is actually logged intake air temps with and without the stock intake? Have you logged a marked difference? Can you scientifically prove any?


I have hundreds of data logs on my lightning. They all show that as soon as the trucks moving iat drops to within a few degrees of ambient.

Have you logged maf counts to see if the warmer air is actually showing a drop in air density?



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 Posted: Thu May 31st, 2018 11:56 am
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aroundincircles wrote:
Wow, I struck a nerve.
That's what makes discussion forums so rich in content.

Dustin actually has a point that I bring up all the time at work due to the R&D (or lack of proper) we are asked to do then change things based on what data?

It would seem that pulling air from right under the hood would produce warmer air. But how much warmer and what effect does it have on other systems?

Muscle cars for years have put a circular open air cleaner atop their carbs that suck warm air from up around the headers. Every car I owned when I was a kid I flipped the top of the air cleaner to expose the filter and produce a growl during acceleration.

MOST PEOPLE DON'T LIKE GREEN TRUCKS AND I HAVE 3. Do what you want, what you are doing will look cool, sound cool, is not dangerous to you or your motor and at worst will drop engine efficiency by a very small percent.

Differences in opinion is what defines us, it is a good thing.



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 Posted: Thu May 31st, 2018 02:29 pm
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cold air intakes are great when"
No metal tubes, metal = heat soak = increased temp of incoming air charge = no good.

Feed it cold air. I would rahter have a modded factory airbox with a good filter then I would some CAI sucking warm air from under the hood. So even when I do use a cone filter under the hood I take steps to make sure it is shielded from the heat of the exhaust/engine and also the turbulence from the engine driven fan. Use ducting to feed cold air from behind grill/headlight/fender to the filter. Also a way for heat to escape really helps drop underhood temps. The colder the air the more power you will make. However as stated above you may sacrifice some MPG a hot engine is an efficient engine (some of these newer cars/trucks run at like 240 water/trans temps)


Use a good filter, like the Amsoil/Injen blue dry filters, they are great

If you have an older engine with a metal upper intake you would see far better performance gains from a simple intake spacer then you will from a CAI, putting phenolic material spacer between the lower intake and upper intake will keep the upper intake much cooler = lower intake air temp = more power 

Breathing mods are VERY beneficial at high elevations like Colorado rocky mountains, otherwise the CAI is basically looks cool, unless you do it right and actually decrease the temp of your incoming air.

You will always only be as good as your smallest bottleneck, usually somewhere in the exhaust manifolds on our RBV

Last edited on Thu May 31st, 2018 05:25 pm by 410customs



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 Posted: Thu May 31st, 2018 04:38 pm
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JAMMAN wrote:
aroundincircles wrote:

Wow, I struck a nerve.
That's what makes discussion forums so rich in content.

Dustin actually has a point that I bring up all the time at work due to the R&D (or lack of proper) we are asked to do then change things based on what data?

It would seem that pulling air from right under the hood would produce warmer air. But how much warmer and what effect does it have on other systems?

Muscle cars for years have put a circular open air cleaner atop their carbs that suck warm air from up around the headers. Every car I owned when I was a kid I flipped the top of the air cleaner to expose the filter and produce a growl during acceleration.

MOST PEOPLE DON'T LIKE GREEN TRUCKS AND I HAVE 3. Do what you want, what you are doing will look cool, sound cool, is not dangerous to you or your motor and at worst will drop engine efficiency by a very small percent.

Differences in opinion is what defines us, it is a good thing.

I also wonder, when its 110° outside, how much difference is there really, between the outside air and the air under the hood, once you're moving? and the filter will sill be right next to the hole that the old air filter pulls from...

anyways I picked it up, should be here Saturday, We'll see how it looks. Drove the truck into work today, just because I think its been almost two weeks since it was last driven. Its a mess, It really needs to be washed, so I'll probably be doing that after work today. I could really stand to clay bar it, but Don't have the time for that.



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 Posted: Thu May 31st, 2018 06:09 pm
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Dusten wrote:
I'm curious, who here is actually logged intake air temps with and without the stock intake?  Have you logged a marked difference?  Can you scientifically prove any?


I have hundreds of data logs on my lightning.  They all show that as soon as the trucks moving iat drops to within a few degrees of ambient.

Have you logged maf counts to see if the warmer air is actually showing a drop in air density?

Have you ever heard of a "Cool Can", usually used in drag racing to reduce the temperature of the gas going Ito the engine.
Why would anyone use a Cool Can if it didn't do anything ?
I used to see Racings take ice cubes and dump them on the engine intake to cool it down, why would they do that ?
And it is scientific fact that cold air in more dense, and in turn it will pack more !
When you put a more dense cool gas under pressure, mixed with a combustable atomized liquid, it make a bigger boom, a bigger make more HP
!
I am sure there are a lot of different ways to get more HP from your engine, one being Cooler Air... and the amount of increase in HP is based on your other components.  If you add a good outside air supply but have a bad fuel injection system or Carburetor, or maybe other wore out components, then you may not record as much gain in HP.  Under normal situations, a Cool Air Intake System using outside air WILL increase HP and Torque.

No I do not have Scientific Data to support, nor am I going to look it up but the theory of Cool air and HP has been in the works for years.



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I could test a truck with the OBD2 scanner live data stream and watch IAT sensor temp as I drive then do the same drive with a CAI installed I guess, I am sure the high end CAI builders do this when they dyno test their intakes. I know the diesel market is super competitive, not likely data out there for our rangers LOL



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 Posted: Fri Jun 1st, 2018 11:55 pm
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black06xlt wrote:
For $40 I'd buy it. If nothing else when you roll into an S-10 meet and pop the hood it will look cool

Scrambler82 wrote:
Dusten wrote:

I'm curious, who here is actually logged intake air temps with and without the stock intake?  Have you logged a marked difference?  Can you scientifically prove any?


I have hundreds of data logs on my lightning.  They all show that as soon as the trucks moving iat drops to within a few degrees of ambient.

Have you logged maf counts to see if the warmer air is actually showing a drop in air density?

Have you ever heard of a "Cool Can", usually used in drag racing to reduce the temperature of the gas going Ito the engine.
Why would anyone use a Cool Can if it didn't do anything ?
I used to see Racings take ice cubes and dump them on the engine intake to cool it down, why would they do that ?
And it is scientific fact that cold air in more dense, and in turn it will pack more !
When you put a more dense cool gas under pressure, mixed with a combustable atomized liquid, it make a bigger boom, a bigger make more HP
!
I am sure there are a lot of different ways to get more HP from your engine, one being Cooler Air... and the amount of increase in HP is based on your other components.  If you add a good outside air supply but have a bad fuel injection system or Carburetor, or maybe other wore out components, then you may not record as much gain in HP.  Under normal situations, a Cool Air Intake System using outside air WILL increase HP and Torque.

No I do not have Scientific Data to support, nor am I going to look it up but the theory of Cool air and HP has been in the works for years.


I am not debating the power of cooler air.  I run a big supercharger on top of my engine.  I know all about air intake temps and their effect on my power.

My comment was directed here...  Has anyone actually logged the difference in air intake temps?  As I stated, my open filter intake my lightning will register within 2-3* of the outside air temp as soon as the truck is moving.  Literally within a second.  

Secondly, the MAF on these trucks account for air density.  Has anyone logged that to see if there is a measurable drop in air density with any of these intakes?


You can spout all the theory you want, but back it up with something.

And the cool cans are because most high end fuel pumps will actually boil the fuel.



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 Posted: Fri Jun 1st, 2018 11:56 pm
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410customs wrote:
I could test a truck with the OBD2 scanner live data stream and watch IAT sensor temp as I drive then do the same drive with a CAI installed I guess, I am sure the high end CAI builders do this when they dyno test their intakes. I know the diesel market is super competitive, not likely data out there for our rangers LOL

I though about going out and doing just this with my torque app.



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2001 Ford Lightning - Built Motor - Built Trans - 2.9 Whipple - E85 - Custom Interior - 537/632 - 11.40 @ 119.6(old setup)
1968 Ford Mustang "Gold Nugget Special"
2018 Ford Mustang GT PP1
1999 Ranger
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 Posted: Sat Jun 2nd, 2018 01:22 am
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JAMMAN

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Torque pro will do this?



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 Posted: Sat Jun 2nd, 2018 02:30 am
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JAMMAN wrote:
Torque pro will do this?
Should  it logs pids.  Id just need to see if iat is one of them.



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2001 Ford Lightning - Built Motor - Built Trans - 2.9 Whipple - E85 - Custom Interior - 537/632 - 11.40 @ 119.6(old setup)
1968 Ford Mustang "Gold Nugget Special"
2018 Ford Mustang GT PP1
1999 Ranger
https://www.youtube.com/user/lightningdusten
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 Posted: Sat Jun 2nd, 2018 03:43 am
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So just for fun.

Ambient temp is 84*

With complete stock intake.  Stopped at idle.  Inttake air temp 111*

Once up to speed temp dropped to 106

I removed the air box leaving the intake tube and maf.

At idle temp was 120*

At cruise speed temp was 106...


 The temp actually dropped faster with the open air filter setup

It took ten seconds with the stock airbox to drop temp.  It took less than six with the open setup.



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2001 Ford Lightning - Built Motor - Built Trans - 2.9 Whipple - E85 - Custom Interior - 537/632 - 11.40 @ 119.6(old setup)
1968 Ford Mustang "Gold Nugget Special"
2018 Ford Mustang GT PP1
1999 Ranger
https://www.youtube.com/user/lightningdusten
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 Posted: Sat Jun 2nd, 2018 03:47 am
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So 9 degrees hot at stop and equal at speed. This is valuable, thank you for providing the test data.



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00 XLT 2WD RCSB 5.0 swap Gherkin
00 XLT 4WD XCSB 4.0 G2
00 XLT 4WD RCSB 3.GO! Jalapeño
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00 XLT 2WD RC Steppie 2.5 Dee Dee

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 Posted: Sat Jun 2nd, 2018 04:33 am
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Dusten wrote:
black06xlt wrote:

For $40 I'd buy it. If nothing else when you roll into an S-10 meet and pop the hood it will look cool

Scrambler82 wrote:

Dusten wrote:


I'm curious, who here is actually logged intake air temps with and without the stock intake?  Have you logged a marked difference?  Can you scientifically prove any?


I have hundreds of data logs on my lightning.  They all show that as soon as the trucks moving iat drops to within a few degrees of ambient.

Have you logged maf counts to see if the warmer air is actually showing a drop in air density?

Have you ever heard of a "Cool Can", usually used in drag racing to reduce the temperature of the gas going Ito the engine.
Why would anyone use a Cool Can if it didn't do anything ?
I used to see Racings take ice cubes and dump them on the engine intake to cool it down, why would they do that ?
And it is scientific fact that cold air in more dense, and in turn it will pack more !
When you put a more dense cool gas under pressure, mixed with a combustable atomized liquid, it make a bigger boom, a bigger make more HP
!
I am sure there are a lot of different ways to get more HP from your engine, one being Cooler Air... and the amount of increase in HP is based on your other components.  If you add a good outside air supply but have a bad fuel injection system or Carburetor, or maybe other wore out components, then you may not record as much gain in HP.  Under normal situations, a Cool Air Intake System using outside air WILL increase HP and Torque.

No I do not have Scientific Data to support, nor am I going to look it up but the theory of Cool air and HP has been in the works for years.


I am not debating the power of cooler air.  I run a big supercharger on top of my engine.  I know all about air intake temps and their effect on my power.

My comment was directed here...  Has anyone actually logged the difference in air intake temps?  As I stated, my open filter intake my lightning will register within 2-3* of the outside air temp as soon as the truck is moving.  Literally within a second.  

Secondly, the MAF on these trucks account for air density.  Has anyone logged that to see if there is a measurable drop in air density with any of these intakes?


You can spout all the theory you want, but back it up with something.

And the cool cans are because most high end fuel pumps will actually boil the fuel.

I also wonder, with a metal intake pipe, does it remove any heat from the intake air, or does it absorb heat from the engine bay and radiate it into the intake air? 

I am getting new hot/cold pipes for project car, (before and after intercooler), and they tend to continue to cool the air by pulling heat out, vs the plastic that insulates the air more.



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 Posted: Sat Jun 2nd, 2018 04:48 am
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As mentioned metal pipes would hold the heat and plastic pipe would provide a cooler charge. The pipe on mine is chrome. But yo know what they say chrome won't get you home but it will get you laid



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 Posted: Sat Jun 2nd, 2018 05:27 am
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As a side note:
Back in 99 I got a new Lariat F-150. I had a buddy I was in the military with that had a speed shop after he retired. He used my truck to test various bolt on performance mods. The goal was to increase the torque in the 1500-5000 rpm range focusing more on the lower end.

We tried the two most popular intake system and a "stock-mod" air intake. The K&N and Air Raid were better than stock but a modified stock aibox with the baffle removed and a 80mm feed hose from the airbox to the fender did better than the aftermarket kits.

Regardless of the air intake system bumping the throttle body from 70mm to 75mm did more to help the torque than anything.



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