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98 4.0 Ranger       #: 1317
 Moderated by: Mike69, MaDMaXX Page:    1  2  3  4  5  Next Page Last Page  
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 Posted: Mon Oct 8th, 2018 07:24 pm
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Just replaced 2 heads, pushrods, rocker arms, started it up, runs great but now loud clicking and I'm assuming lifters.

What can you guys suggest. 

New lifters I'm assuming means new cam, new cam means new chain, where does it stop.

I guess I made a mistake putting money into this truck but what can I do at this point?

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 Posted: Mon Oct 8th, 2018 07:55 pm
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Check the actual oil pressure, get one of those cheap 8 dollar gauges from auto zone and see what the oil pressure actually is at idle and when you rev it a little.

Might be lifters, might be lifters not getting oil for a host of reasons. One could be the cam synch, maybe the gear is stripped out. A 4.0 will still run without a cam synch turning but you will get zero oil pressure.

Your gauge isn't really a gauge in the truck, look in any of them. They stay at half way.

Real sorry it didn't work out for you but I wouldn't give up quite yet.



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 Posted: Mon Oct 8th, 2018 07:58 pm
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When I replaced the heads on my 2000 Ranger 4.0 I replaced the lifters at that time since you can NOT remove the lifters with the heads on the engine. When I replaced the lifters I did not replace the cam.



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 Posted: Mon Oct 8th, 2018 09:13 pm
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JAMMAN wrote:
Check the actual oil pressure, get one of those cheap 8 dollar gauges from auto zone and see what the oil pressure actually is at idle and when you rev it a little.

Might be lifters, might be lifters not getting oil for a host of reasons. One could be the cam synch, maybe the gear is stripped out. A 4.0 will still run without a cam synch turning but you will get zero oil pressure.

Your gauge isn't really a gauge in the truck, look in any of them. They stay at half way.

Real sorry it didn't work out for you but I wouldn't give up quite yet.

Thanks, I'm gonna assume the only place to check oil pressure is at the sending unit? Makes no difference if it's idle or going down the road the noise is there 

Didn't make the noise before I did the work though and so I'm confused.

Bolt the heads, torque, bolt rocker shafts, torque, no adjustment. Not rocket science.

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 Posted: Mon Oct 8th, 2018 09:14 pm
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Mike69 wrote:
When I replaced the heads on my 2000 Ranger 4.0 I replaced the lifters at that time since you can NOT remove the lifters with the heads on the engine. When I replaced the lifters I did not replace the cam.
I know that can be done but I'm concerned with longevity

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 Posted: Mon Oct 8th, 2018 09:56 pm
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Did you by chance soak the lifters in a tub of oil?



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 Posted: Mon Oct 8th, 2018 11:20 pm
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He didn't replace the lifters just pushrods and rocker arms
Did you compare the new pushrods to the ones you removed


Time to check your work, I know it sucks but you need to at least remove the valve covers and see where the noise is coming from.



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 Posted: Mon Oct 8th, 2018 11:37 pm
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And you can pull the rockers AND push rods to inspect the ends.

410 do the push rods have thru holes like the V8's?



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 Posted: Mon Oct 8th, 2018 11:53 pm
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No thru holes, valvetrain is lubricated via the shaft

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 Posted: Tue Oct 9th, 2018 09:04 am
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Can someone tell me if there is anything special about pedestal installation, what I did was clamp center pedestal in vice and twist off the two outer pedestals to replace the rocker arms.

Id assumed that as long as the bolts limed up for installation then whatever oil holes were there for oil passage would be lined up as well?

Does that sound correct?

Trying to backtrack what might have gone wrong.

I am gonna check the oil pressure as suggested and Im hoping I can do that today.

I put a dab of anti seize on all the push rod ends when I reassembled, that is why Im sure the noise wasnt bad when I initially started.

Now that Ive driven it maybe 10 plus miles its gotten worse.

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 Posted: Tue Oct 9th, 2018 09:07 am
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Also seems like alot of conflicting information about lifter replacement without replacing camshaft, I know little about modern engines, even less about roller lifters, Im sure it can be gotten away with even on an old school camshaft for a while but what kind of miles could I expect to get out of something like this?

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 Posted: Tue Oct 9th, 2018 11:46 am
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60 pounds at startup,give it a little gas and jumps to 65

After warmup it drops to approx 38 can fluctuate between maybe 36 and 42 depending on where idle wants to sit.

Give it gas and it climbs maybe another 5

Can't see how to post pictures using my phone.

Isn't there some port at the top of the engine somewhere?

I'm checking it at the sending unit directly off the engine block.

Quiter this morning when I started it, as it warmed up seemed to get noisier.

What can you guys suggest?

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 Posted: Tue Oct 9th, 2018 11:47 am
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1930 wrote:
60 pounds at startup,give it a little gas and jumps to 65

After warmup it drops to approx 38 can fluctuate between maybe 36 and 42 depending on where idle wants to sit.

Give it gas and it climbs maybe another 5

Can't see how to post pictures using my phone.

Isn't there some port at the top of the engine somewhere?

I'm checking it at the sending unit directly off the engine block.

Quiter this morning when I started it, as it warmed up seemed to get noisier.

What can you guys suggest?

Attachment: IMG_20181009_063510.jpg (Downloaded 30 times)

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 Posted: Tue Oct 9th, 2018 11:47 am
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1930 wrote:
1930 wrote:

60 pounds at startup,give it a little gas and jumps to 65

After warmup it drops to approx 38 can fluctuate between maybe 36 and 42 depending on where idle wants to sit.

Give it gas and it climbs maybe another 5

Can't see how to post pictures using my phone.

Isn't there some port at the top of the engine somewhere?

I'm checking it at the sending unit directly off the engine block.

Quiter this morning when I started it, as it warmed up seemed to get noisier.

What can you guys suggest?

Attachment: IMG_20181009_063421.jpg (Downloaded 31 times)

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 Posted: Tue Oct 9th, 2018 12:04 pm
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just looked it up on all data here at the shop and evidently at 2000 RPM and supposed to have approximately 40 .42 lb of pressure so seems like my oil pressure is good.

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 Posted: Tue Oct 9th, 2018 01:32 pm
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Yes your oil pressure is good, unfortunately you have a blocked passage somewhere. Unfortunately you will have to start taking it apart again.

Valve covers, then rocker assembly. It has been clacking long enough that it should show wear somewhere. The push rods will be a huge clue, the bottoms get lubed from the bottom the tops from the top. If you find wear marks at the top or the bottom of the push rod will be the biggest clues so make sure when you pull them out you mark which side is up.

I think with both rocker covers off and both rocker assemblies off AND inspecting the push rods you will find where the noise is coming from. Dig back in to it don't drive it any more you will destroy it.

I have a rocker assembly I could box up and send you but I gave the push rods away with the heads.



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 Posted: Tue Oct 9th, 2018 01:51 pm
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I replaced the pushrods cause a few of them were literally egg shaped at the top and so the corresponding rocker arms were worn as well, I replaced all pushrods and rocker arms.

Can you tell me or show me via a diagram the oil flow of this engine?

The guy that sold me truck overheated it, I pulled it apart, found cracked head and the other items.

He replaced rad ECT and continued to drive the truck with the not known at the time cracked head but the truck ran poorly

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 Posted: Tue Oct 9th, 2018 02:30 pm
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Did you have the engine checked for cracks? straightness?

I am trying to figure out what you did here:
"Can someone tell me if there is anything special about pedestal installation, what I did was clamp center pedestal in vice and twist off the two outer pedestals to replace the rocker arms."

What?

Oil pressure looks good
Which pushrods where mushroomed the new ones?



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 Posted: Tue Oct 9th, 2018 08:28 pm
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410customs wrote:
Did you have the engine checked for cracks? straightness?

I am trying to figure out what you did here:
"Can someone tell me if there is anything special about pedestal installation, what I did was clamp center pedestal in vice and twist off the two outer pedestals to replace the rocker arms."

What?

Oil pressure looks good
Which pushrods where mushroomed the new ones?

I also replaced all the rockers when I replaced the heads, & IIRC I just clamped one of the pedestals in the bench vise, drove out the roll pin from one end & removed all the pieces & reinstalled in reverse order with the new rockers.



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 Posted: Wed Oct 10th, 2018 12:57 am
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I asked on another forum and 48 views/no replies on an oil passage schematic. Amazes me that one isnt out there on the net but out of curiosity Im gonna get one from a contact I have at the local Ford dealer.

Its moot anyway, I tore down my engine again and I have plenty of oil at the top end.

No signs of anything anywhere wrong, I wish there were.

New O.E lifters were evidently discontinued years ago according to my parts manager but I found a NOS set on e-bay for a great price.

I ( Im a bodyman ) and many other service techs have looked this thing over and we can come up with nothing except a couple/few bad lifters not pumping up.

I know to soak them in oil but never dealt with this type of lifter so do I need to set it in the oil a certain way maybe standing up or does it just not matter?

Thanks

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 Posted: Wed Oct 10th, 2018 02:10 am
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It does not matter
You just need to soak them in oil prior to installation
We run Mahle or Melling lifters here. I am sure NOS will also be okay?
They will pump up very quickly when the engine is started
You have to remove the heads on a OHV 4.0 to install new lifters (as I am sure you know by now)

Bear with me here I am brainstorming but in an effort to help:

You said this engine did not make the noise before the new pushrods and rockers?? Are you sure?

Lifters do not normally just go bad just like that.
You have perfect/good oil pressure for ohv
Looks like you have already verified the top end is oiling
A lifter noise can many many times be solved by running diesel oil in the crankcase for a while. Some people swear by seafoam treatment as well. I use the diesel oil to clean carbon deposits.
The thinking here is that you dislodged some debris (usually carbon buildup) during your work and it has now plugged the lifter oil passages. To dissolve the carbon, diesel oil change and drive it.......diesel oil contains many detergents.
Are you 100% sure it is a valvetrain noise?

In my experience of working on these trucks if a noise was not there before you did the work and is there after you did the work, chances are it is something you did.

You did not touch the lifters? But you may have dropped some debris into the lifter galleys?

You did replace head gaskets which means you did heads, lower intake, fuel rail and upper plenum gaskets.
The head gaskets could interfere with pushrods?
Lower intake interfere with pushrods?
Check the tabs on head gaskets and LIM gaskets and make sure they did not move during install

Have you tried running the engine with valve covers off to help pinpoint noise?
How does it run even with noise?
Any coolant loss?

Last edited on Wed Oct 10th, 2018 02:13 am by 410customs



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 Posted: Wed Oct 10th, 2018 02:31 am
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I appreciate the comments, Ill try to reply best I can.

Valvetrain geometry changed a small amount when I made the changes I made, different heads IE who knows what the differences were as far as surfaces milled too.

Different head gaskets, maybe thicker maybe thinner, I used Fel-pro, prob originals I removed, Id guess Fel pro a thicker gasket.

New push rods IE longer probably since no wear and new rockers, my point is the lifters had to learn a different pattern.

New heavier springs over the worn out crap that was in original heads.
 

I did run some BG engine stuff in the engine ( like seafoam ) I think it did help but I dont want to risk the chance of damaging things by running to just hope it works.

Truck ran great after the work I did, power, no issues whatsoever except the noise.

Im hoping for the best with the new lifters. Ive got a few service techs with alot of experience hoping for the best as well, the only caution Ive been given at this point is that I need to change cam with lifters cause its whats technically supposed to be done.

Im gonna roll the dice and hope for the best.

Its gonna be a few days at least to get parts again, Ill be sure to update either way

Last edited on Wed Oct 10th, 2018 02:35 am by 1930

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 Posted: Wed Oct 10th, 2018 12:05 pm
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410customs wrote:
It does not matter
You just need to soak them in oil prior to installation
We run Mahle or Melling lifters here. I am sure NOS will also be okay?
They will pump up very quickly when the engine is started
You have to remove the heads on a OHV 4.0 to install new lifters (as I am sure you know by now)

Bear with me here I am brainstorming but in an effort to help:

You said this engine did not make the noise before the new pushrods and rockers?? Are you sure?

Lifters do not normally just go bad just like that.
You have perfect/good oil pressure for ohv
Looks like you have already verified the top end is oiling
A lifter noise can many many times be solved by running diesel oil in the crankcase for a while. Some people swear by seafoam treatment as well. I use the diesel oil to clean carbon deposits.
The thinking here is that you dislodged some debris (usually carbon buildup) during your work and it has now plugged the lifter oil passages. To dissolve the carbon, diesel oil change and drive it.......diesel oil contains many detergents.
Are you 100% sure it is a valvetrain noise?

In my experience of working on these trucks if a noise was not there before you did the work and is there after you did the work, chances are it is something you did.

You did not touch the lifters? But you may have dropped some debris into the lifter galleys?

You did replace head gaskets which means you did heads, lower intake, fuel rail and upper plenum gaskets.
The head gaskets could interfere with pushrods?
Lower intake interfere with pushrods?
Check the tabs on head gaskets and LIM gaskets and make sure they did not move during install

Have you tried running the engine with valve covers off to help pinpoint noise?
How does it run even with noise?
Any coolant loss?

Your post got me thinking, I'm gonna look really hard at things when this thing goes back together, I literally almost slammed it back together last time.

I'm gonna be looking at clearances closely.

One thing I did notice when taking it apart was that the rocker arms were not centered perfectly on the tips of the valves like I thought they should have been.

They we're A/M sealed power if my memory is serving properly.

I think I noticed that going together but disregarded it cause I knew there was no adjustment that I was aware of and I had assumed it was still a factory fit.

Can you or someone tell me how close to center they are typically?

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 Posted: Wed Oct 10th, 2018 01:34 pm
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The one I took apart recently was right on center. I still have the arms I'll look at them first break to see where the oil comes in at. Wish now I had kept the heads just for reference.



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 Posted: Wed Oct 10th, 2018 01:53 pm
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You CANNOT cut corners on valve train work
You CANNOT slam things together
In fact you need to treat the top of the engine like as if you were a surgeon doing open heart surgery. CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN is the key and you must be super careful.

You must change the oil as coolant gets into the crankcase

They should be mostly centered yes, however there is no pushrod "guide" so to speak
Only the pressure from the valve springs and the lifter keep the rocker tips centered on top of the lifter and in the cup of the rocker tip

I have been doing this many many years on these engines, I do not like replacing heads, in fact many times I will just swap the whole damn engine (its less work and can be less expensive)
Too many times with head gaskets/heads you run into these issues which is WHY you must go slowly and do everything so carefully.......

Let us know what you find!!



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